Dragon's Crown |OT| -- NOW AVAILABLE! Hands-On Impressions Inside!

[QUOTE="Foolz3h"]

[QUOTE="SteelAttack"]

No, I don't. It takes a tad more than a big set of breasts in a videogame character design to offend me. Besides, when you take the design in its proper context, you realize how much work has been put into the creation of something like this beyond the "huh, boobs" impression.

SteelAttack

Yep, you're right. It's amazing how much work can go into something that looks so crap. :P

This could end up surpassing SFIV as the ugliest game of the generation...though I must say (just like SFIV) it looks pretty good in motion.

Really? I find it to be great looking, but I'm sure your judgement on art and aesthetics far surpasses the one of a layman like myself, so I'll take your word for it.

It's nice when the little people know thier place. :)

It's obviously tongue-in-cheek.homegirl2180

I'd say it's more staff-in-crack...

[QUOTE="rragnaar"]Oddly enough, I'm just happy to see some art out of Japan that features a fully developed woman, rather than some barely pubescent schoolgirl in danger of getting assaulted by tentacles. I don't find it offensive, I find it to be a step back towards a healthy depiction of sexuality from Japan.capaho

[QUOTE="capaho"][QUOTE="rragnaar"]Oddly enough, I'm just happy to see some art out of Japan that features a fully developed woman, rather than some barely pubescent schoolgirl in danger of getting assaulted by tentacles. I don't find it offensive, I find it to be a step back towards a healthy depiction of sexuality from Japan.iDefinition

Because breasts + lips=penis and testicles on a man. Take a look at the Penny Arcade comic for reference.

What's sad about that?

prostitue themselvescapaho

[QUOTE="capaho"]prostitue themselvesiDefinition

Well it worked. Everyone took notice of the game... everyone... the whole universe has learned about dragon krown now

Well it worked. Everyone took notice of the game... everyone... the whole universe has learned about dragon krown nowgamingqueen

Seriously? Fictional virtual characters that do not represent the characteristics of real human gamers qualifies as diversity in games? You completely missed the point of his message.

You may have found a report on gamer demographics, but are the game developers actually developing for the demographics you found? Games certainly look like they're marketed to white adolescent males. I doubt that the graphic in the opening post of this thread is one that would appeal to most healthy, well-adjusted adults.

Seriously? Diabetic Simulator 2013? Sadly, if the insensitivity apparent in your comments reflects that of the majority of gamers, it's no wonder that character development in games continues to lack depth and diversity.

capaho

My point is that gaming is far more diverse in terms of offering varied protagonists than he claimed. If the issue as you suggest is facilitating realism, why become offended by a character who clearly occupies an unrealistic, fantastical construct? The character and game in question are clearly not meant to be a reflection of stark reality and rather occupy dimensions wholly and purposely exaggerated that mesh perfectly with this specific game's aesthetics.

Using this particular character as some metric when gauging the overall alleged insensitivity of the medium is a flawed methodology.

As to the report, I clearly and entirely dismantled his postulation with actual evidence to the contrary. His claim was that the largest demographic playing games was adolescent males and clearly, that was an erroneous and disprovable statement.

The issue of targeted demographics is another matter entirely, though it seems logical that developers and publishers are aware of these numbers, even if BigBooi and you are not. You also continue to traffic in generalities and claim that the vast majority of games are geared towards adolescent males yet, as per usual, you offer not an iota of evidence to back up your blather.

And your insensitivity accusation is simply banal and tedious. My comment was a direct refutation of his arbitrary and poorly-laid argument for diversity which clearly was predicated on nothing more substantial than whimsy. To suggest an obese black child be the central protagonist of a game without some further context or explanation was silly and I made light of that suggestion accordingly.

Kudos though for blaming me personally for the supposed dearth of maturity in this medium. If nothing else you consistently deliver vacuous and unsubstantial drivel bereft of even the slightest hint of logic.

]Ignore him, he has an absolute hard-on for anything I say, and likes to stalk me and say how wrong I am in every post. I must have screwed him over in a previous life or something. I simply was using random examples for possible characters that are different from the norm. I couldn't give a shit what he "finds amusing" or about his opinions, and wasn't even talking to him in the first place.

Bigboi500

Again, as I've written before, I have no problem with you personally. I don't know you personally.

However, what you wrote about adolescent males being the primary demographic WAS FLATLY WRONG.

And it took me all of sixty seconds to look up the information online.

That's my problem, the so called "hard-on" I have regarding what you post: you don't substantiate your musing and think me the villain for pointing out their flaws, which are copious.

And isn't it adorably ironic that somebody who admonishes an entire medium and those who toil within it as immature can only rebut what I write by using a sexualized reference instead of intelligently responding or even conceding his error?

If you are not prepared to discuss what you write then you are in the wrong place.

Are you asking me what's sad about the sexual exploitation of teenage girls?capaho

Firstly, who ever claimed she was a teenager?

But of course you are correct, the sexual exploitation of entirely fictional, hand-drawn women is something that must end.

We must also strive for equality as it pertains to men so the next medieval-themed hack-n-slash cannot have muscular, handsome men with washboard abs waylaying enemies.

Perhaps olive-colored oversized T-shirts for everyone?

Bone-dry of course.

[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]Solid_Snake325

Helps not to come off as ass yourself when telling someone off.

[QUOTE="Solid_Snake325"][This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]c_rake

Helps not to come off as ass yourself when telling someone off.

Glad the self-righteous mods are here to help.Solid_Snake325

You're welcome.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

]Ignore him, he has an absolute hard-on for anything I say, and likes to stalk me and say how wrong I am in every post. I must have screwed him over in a previous life or something. I simply was using random examples for possible characters that are different from the norm. I couldn't give a shit what he "finds amusing" or about his opinions, and wasn't even talking to him in the first place.

Grammaton-Cleric

Again, as I've written before, I have no problem with you personally. I don't know you personally.

However, what you wrote about adolescent males being the primary demographic WAS FLATLY WRONG.

And it took me all of sixty seconds to look up the information online.

That's my problem, the so called "hard-on" I have regarding what you post: you don't substantiate your musing and think me the villain for pointing out their flaws, which are copious.

And isn't it adorably ironic that somebody who admonishes an entire medium and those who toil within it as immature can only rebut what I write by using a sexualized reference instead of intelligently responding or even conceding his error?

If you are not prepared to discuss what you write then you are in the wrong place.

I've tried getting along with you in the past, making light-heart-ed jokes and tried being jocular, but you're always so damned serious and stone cold. Try using your keen intellect in a way other than besting, belittling and passive-aggressively insulting posters all the time, and lighten up just a little. Learn to accept others who have different mannerism's and thought processes than you do, and don't always expect posters to respond and act as you yourself might.

Hell, I know I have flaws since I'm only human. It's just super obnoxious to follow people around, knit-pick and point out things that aren't perfect. Sometimes people just speak in general about things and don't really care if what was said is exactly 100% accurate and so-on. It's perfectly acceptable to just have a thought about something, type it out and post it regardless if true or not. Who cares? Comments and thoughts on this forum are not government testimony or written law. 

Wait you can still get modded for being an ass? ...shitJML897

Technically, though not very often. We tend to resort to verbal warnings first.

]I'm under no obligation to "substantiate" anything I write, or even respond to you if you're talking about stuff I have no interest in. I don't care who takes me seriously or not, or what others think about my comments, or how I express myself. I have no desire to write out 500+ word responses all the time and over-analyze every little thing, and I'm free to say anything I like as long as it coincides with the ToU and rules of this website.

I've tried getting along with you in the past, making light-heart-ed jokes and tried being jocular, but you're always so damned serious and stone cold. Try using your keen intellect in a way other than besting, belittling and passive-aggressively insulting posters all the time, and lighten up just a little. Learn to accept others who have different mannerism's and thought processes than you do, and don't always expect posters to respond and act as you yourself might.

Hell, I know I have flaws since I'm only human. It's just super obnoxious to follow people around, knit-pick and point out things that aren't perfect. Sometimes people just speak in general about things and don't really care if what was said is exactly 100% accurate and so-on. It's perfectly acceptable to just have a thought about something, type it out and post it regardless if true or not. Who cares? Comments and thoughts on this forum are not government testimony or written law.

Bigboi500

This is an open forum so while you can post whatever you want, expect a rebuttal, especially when what you write can be verified as factually incorrect on Google in less than a minute.

And again, I'm attacking what you write, not you personally. Plenty of people on this forum, most of them members far longer than you, have no problem with me and do just fine holding their own in discussions and debates. By contrast, you whine incessantly when I attack your arguments, as if to do so is some manner of violation, suggesting you should either grow a thicker skin or avoid public forums entirely.

And most of the people who feel insulted when I rebut their arguments do so because they feel genuine shame or anger at having their tenuous, ill-conceived banter put under a more deliberate scrutiny. Frankly, I found what you wrote overtly offensive, as you basically slandered not only those who make software but you are also deriding many of us who play it. You climbed up in an ivory tower and now you muster the audacity to claim I'm the one with the problem?

You are also delusional if you think I am stalking you. I have responded to a number of posts you have written because frankly, you are consistently wrong. If being in that perpetual state of ignorance is pleasing to you god-speed but do not assume others will sit idly by and allow you to write whatever you want without seeking some manner of rebuttal. I'm not here to support your arguments or allow you to spread your wings like a unique little butterfly. You've written some very inflammatory things and either be willing to respond to criticisms of your arguments intelligently or quit wasting my time.

Great! Now that that's settled, let's get back to the business at hand:

Secondly, your breakdown of gamer demographics is far too simplistic to be an effective substantiation of your argument. I did some of my own digging and according to the Entertainment Software Association's 2012 report on the state of the industry, females now represent 47% of the gaming populace.

Grammaton-Cleric

This is a really vague and probably misleading statistic. It seems like that study would even count my 75-year-old grandma as a gamer because she casually plays Angry Birds on her phone and Bejeweled on the computer.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Secondly, your breakdown of gamer demographics is far too simplistic to be an effective substantiation of your argument. I did some of my own digging and according to the Entertainment Software Association's 2012 report on the state of the industry, females now represent 47% of the gaming populace.

JML897

This is a really vague and probably misleading statistic. It seems like that study would even count my 75-year-old grandma as a gamer because she casually plays Angry Birds on her phone and Bejeweled on the computer.

And? Are those not games?

What I find offensive is that some individuals are willing to undermine and belittle the artistic achievements on Dragon's Crown absolute visual tour de force by distilling the entire game as "only "a pair of jiggling breasts without looking at everything else this game has to offer.SciFiCat

I just hope the actual game PLAYS as good as they look!

...

:o  :oops:

...

...IT looks...

...IT...

...I meant IT!

:P

My point is...unsubstantial drivel bereft of even the slightest hint of logic.

Grammaton-Cleric

Firstly, who ever claimed she was a teenager?

But of course you are correct, the sexual exploitation of entirely fictional, hand-drawn women is something that must end.

We must also strive for equality as it pertains to men so the next medieval-themed hack-n-slash cannot have muscular, handsome men with washboard abs waylaying enemies.

Perhaps olive-colored oversized T-shirts for everyone?

Bone-dry of course.

Grammaton-Cleric

[QUOTE="capaho"]

It looks perfectly appropriate for the gaming industry's prized market demographic of drooling white males with adolescent hot chick fantasies.

Ricardo41

This. And then we wonder why so few people take games and gamers seriously.

Come on... sex is everywhere, not just in video games.  

What I find offensive is that some individuals are willing to undermine and belittle the artistic achievements on Dragon's Crown absolute visual tour de force by distilling the entire game as "only "a pair of jiggling breasts without looking at everything else this game has to offer.SciFiCat

Getting tired of thinking that gaming is the only medium that sexualizes women. 

JustPlainLucas

[QUOTE="JML897"]

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Secondly, your breakdown of gamer demographics is far too simplistic to be an effective substantiation of your argument. I did some of my own digging and according to the Entertainment Software Association's 2012 report on the state of the industry, females now represent 47% of the gaming populace.

UpInFlames

This is a really vague and probably misleading statistic. It seems like that study would even count my 75-year-old grandma as a gamer because she casually plays Angry Birds on her phone and Bejeweled on the computer.

And? Are those not games?

I would prefer to see the gender breakdown for people who play video games for (x) hours a week. That study (at least on that page; I read the PDF too) just kinda said "53% male, 47% female" and then didn't go deeper into the gender breakdown. I found the study to be very barebones and I would've preferred it to be more detailed.

When it comes to relevance in this thread, grammatron and bigboi were discussing what types of people are being marketed to with these types of games. Clearly the person who plays let's say 5-10 hours of games a week is more likely to buy games in the future than someone who just plays Angry Birds while trying to kill some time in the doctor's office. That's why I'd like to see a breakdown of "dedicated" gamers. I would also like to see a console-by-console gender breakdown - 360, ps3, wii, smartphone, pc, facebook games, etc.

I mean, that study said that only 46% of gamers planned on buying one game or more in 2012. That leads me to believe that the study was defining "gamer" pretty loosely. For the record, I'm not necessarily disputing that 53% male 47% female statistic. I just want more details behind it.

Gaming isn't the only medium that objectifies women, I don't think anyone here is saying that. My issue, specifically, is that the gaming industry has made almost no effort to be more inclusive by taking into account the diversity and humanity of the gamers themselves in the design of game characters as well as the stories. The rest of the entertainment industry is way ahead of gaming in that regard.capaho

Regardless of the few games that are pushing diversity forward, it's unfair to think that the gaming industry needs to level itself out overnight. It's still in its infancy when compared to movies and most certainly novels. When the audience is ready for it, the gaming industry will truly mature. However, people need to stop acting in shock whenever they see a pair of breasts in a video game, focusing only on those pair of breasts and forgetting everything else other video games do.

JustPlainLucas

What I find offensive is that some individuals are willing to undermine and belittle the artistic achievements on Dragon's Crown absolute visual tour de force by distilling the entire game as "only "a pair of jiggling breasts without looking at everything else this game has to offer.SciFiCat

Don't you think the game is undermining itself?

The game might be f*cking great. I have no idea because I know nothing about it. But to go back to JPL bringing up movies - when I see something like Sofia Vergara's boob cannons on the poster for Machete 2, I think "this is clearly a b-movie without much artistic value". I think something similar when I see a game where the developers create a character with ridiculously huge bouncing boobs while wearing barely any clothing to cover them up. As I said earlier, I don't think it's "offensive" but I just think it's tacky.

It's just like:
*sticks giant distracting breasts in your face*
"HEY, WHY AREN'T YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO THE GAME'S OTHER ARTISTIC ACHIEVEMENTS?"

Hey. Let's address the whole: This is a perfect example of exaggerated JAPANESE character design for a moment. Shall we?

I'm not offended I just find it rather try hard.

Oh crap. There's a Squid monster.

Tentacles.

This won't end well.

Not really offensive. My reaction is more "really, we're still doing this? we're still making a big deal about breasts and plastering them all over games to get sales? Jesus Christ, it's a woman, they comprise literally half of the human population, you'd think we'd be past this by now. If you want to get sexually aroused by a woman with massive breasts, there are millions of pictures and videos on the internet, seriously, you don't have to buy a game for this."

What I find offensive is that some individuals are willing to undermine and belittle the artistic achievements on Dragon's Crown absolute visual tour de force by distilling the entire game as "only "a pair of jiggling breasts without looking at everything else this game has to offer.SciFiCat

This.

That happens with other games as well. Really too bad that DOA is famous more for the breasts of various characters instead of the top tier fighting mechanics it presents.